Mad Men

Today all four seasons of Mad Men went up on NWI. The fifth season doesn't start until next year so you'll have plenty of time to catch up if you haven't seen it yet.

I think we can agree that when you mix drugs and schoolwork, you win. And you're right Brandon, that Norway thing was so last week; time to move on. But not before I issue a Gilbert Godfried-esque tweet about the tragedy.

Jeff isn't in the hospital but Alex apparently gave him a big bruise near his butt at soccer tonight. Oh wait, Jeff doesn't have a butt.

Black Death possibly tomorrow. Again, still in Jesse Spano mode. I've also got Source Code coming in the mail. Have yet to see it.

I Want a New Drug

Huey Lewis and the News references are fun.

Brandon, adderall is a gateway drug to cocaine. Similarly to how good gore is a gateway drug to bad gore. I really don't want to dismiss any genre now that I'm a part of this club, but lines will still probably be drawn. When gore dominates a movie, that's when it becomes gimmicky and crappy. If a good movie has gore in it here and there, I have no problems with this.

Al Gore is all right - he's kind of a turd, but I like his politics. I like others' politics more, but yes, I like the guy that gets an "eww" response from you well enough.

Like Lisa, I will say that you did the right thing when it came to Jeff "Wristcutter" Howard. You're a good friend, in my mind. Better to be safe than sorry.

No, it's true, I think you do have to be more concerned with yourself than others. I think it's stupid/childish to say something like, "Atheists are cooler than Christians." The reason why I gave that example was because the Norway thing really disturbs me/pisses me off and my emotions got the better of me. But yeah, too much generalization on my part. There are plenty of Atheist douchebags out there. But I'm ready to tone it down and start talkin' film again. I have yet to watch Black Death. Maybe I'll be able to tonight...probably not. More soccer - tonight I make Alex Craver a cripple.

Lisa, that is a great episode of Saved By the Bell, but I don't think it's as good as the one where Johnny Dakota comes to town to shoot a anti-dope ad with the students of Bayside. Not only does the gang find out that Johnny is keen on Kelly, but he's also pretty keen on pot as well. After all, it's worse than cigarettes, am I right? Man that show is ridiculous. All mullets are disgusting, but A.C. Slater's may have been the worst...

I'm Sorry For Apologizing...

I'm not sure if Lisa still has this up on her Facebook page - but she did have a someecard about Jesse Spano taking caffeine pills as her profile pic. If anyone is unfamiliar with this episode of Saved By the Bell, I pity you.

Anyway, the reason why I bring that up is because Jesse took caffeine pills because there was so much she wanted to accomplish and not enough time in the day to do it all. I'm in that place right now. I'm really hating work; I just want hang out with friends, sit around and write back and forth to you guys, watch movies, surf the web, etc.

There's so much to address. I don't know where to start.

I guess the first thing that I want to say is that the reason why I apologize so much is because I usually apologize to people for the littlest of things. When I play soccer, I apologize to people for giving a bad pass. It's just somehow very ingrained in me. So there's that, but then there's also the fact that I felt for a moment that I viciously attacked your religion, John. I'm glad you don't see it that way or you can understand what I really meant, but those posts could be viewed as fighting words and I don't want to fight with you or offend you at all. Again, I buy into hippie shit and choose love and respect over hate and anger. Anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering. I'm also used to religious people being very uptight. You take down a poster of a Christmas tree and suddenly there's a war on Christmas. Jeff is right - this is America where Christians are in control (you can't even get elected president if you're not one). For them to paint themselves as victims will always piss me off. And mainly Christian conservatives pull that stuff - the Fox News team to be more specific.

So unless you're a Christian Conservative, John, I will patronize you and call you one of the "good Christians." I know it sounds pejorative, but that's how I feel. Or, if you were someone like that fucking douche in Norway - someone who lets his religious beliefs destroy/harm the lives of other people. But since there is no warrant out for your arrest at this time, I think it's safe to assume that you're not one of those Christians either. Those are the two "crazies" categories in my mind.

Sure you might believe some or all of the Bible to be literally true. If that's the case, all I can say is, "I can't understand that." Like Jeff said, believing in a lot of the stuff from the Bible is like believing that Harry Potter is real. I will say that I took a class on the Bible in college - it was a fun class and I really enjoyed it. I also found out that the Bible is pretty fucked up. If anyone knows the story of Lot, you know what I'm talking about. But I am not so completely turned off to Christianity and I don't hate people for believing in God. I just know that I don't but I can accept the beliefs of others.

I'm really enjoying my time here in film/rant/motion picture club. Thanks for those kind words, Brandon. I just hope that in the future I can provide more for the film aspect of the club. I enjoy the other stuff definitely, but I do have a goal of learning more about film and its history. I love classics and have seen the most talked about ones, but I definitely want to see more. I know I'm sorta wasting my time by going through the 90s and 80s first - but I really want to complete those years and move onto bigger and better things.

I'm with Jeff and Ben in that I don't care for gore. Al Gore, on the other hand, I can't get enough of! Often it's too gimicky in the way that 3-D is. Each year someone tries to up the ante. Soon Human Centipede will be considered tame. It's such a waste of time. But sure, it isn't always like that. Some gore I can deal with just fine, but mostly it ain't my thing, baby.

John, I completely agree with you in that I don't want to keep talking about non-movie topics every single post. That's not what I'm here to do. I didn't come here to shake things up and turn this into religion/politics club. And I'm glad we agree on the story aspect of The Passion. I feel we've found some common ground, even if took a while for me to get focused. But whatever, all the other stuff was fun, too. I enjoyed everything about it (especially now that I know you are unoffendable).

Brandon, thanks again, man. Sorry my Dashboard Confessional-lovin', emo brother had to ruin your dinner.

I just want to take the time to announce to everyone that the Howard brothers are very playful characters. 95% of the time we are straight-jocular and the other five percent of the time we worship Satan. That's another point I want to make, too. Some Christians assume that if someone doesn't believe in God, he/she believes in Satan. That red bastard is just as fictional to me as God is.

Anyways, I'm with you on squash tasting like shit. I want to go on record and stand up for asparagus, though. That stuff is delicious.

I'm positive Birth of a Nation has more to offer than I assume it does. I don't think that makes you a racist. Because I know you to be a very tolerant man, Brandon, I know that it makes you an admirer/lover of film. If I were to screen the movie at the high school that I sub at and the kids liked it, it would be 100% due to racism - those little racist shits. But yeah, I'm not afraid of that - it's not as if I feel that if I watch it I might secretly like it and it would make me question whether I'm truly tolerant. I don't know, that kind of blatant stuff just feels very horrific to me. I'm just not ready for it yet.

And I don't mean to sound as if the Marx Brothers were racist. Clearly they lived during a time (as Griffith did) when certain things that we know to be offensive now were the norm then. I'm just saying that - I believe it's Duck Soup - where Groucho has a slightly offensive joke where the punchline is "the darkies" - something to that effect. Not sure if you've seen A Day at the Races, but there is a slightly offensive dance sequence in that. It's nothing that would make you view them in negative way - certainly not the case for me, but the point is that there are people that I love (the Marx Brothers) who have done some controversial things and so I don't want to completely dismiss Birth of a Nation of Griffith. Again, Griffith is a huge figure in terms of film history. I can't ignore that fact.

With the atheist carrying out a religious killing example - I was really just trying to say...when was the last time an atheist killed a Christian or a Muslim because of that Christian or Muslim's beliefs? Even though I think you misunderstood me (or perhaps you were just joking), I'm glad you called it an oxymoron, though, and you aren't one of those people who think they're really clever by announcing that atheism is a "religion."

Atheists apologize for their violence, man. I had to give your singer a hug after we stopped playing. True story. Peace and love, man. I love hippies and I'd love to get a drumming circle going with Alex. haha.

I felt like I had more to say, but maybe after we all watch Black Death, we'll have more to argue about. Tree of Life this weekend. I can't wait.

Context

I just want to say that last night's rant was meant to give context as to why Christianity has bothered me for the past 10-15 years. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't believe myself to be anti-Christian. I think that Jeff rightfully points out that It's a Wonderful Life is a religious/Christian movie. I love that movie and am not bothered in anyway by references or depictions of Heaven, God, or angels. I'm sure there are plenty of other examples, but I wanted to type this quickly before everyone begins to wake up and read about what kind of asshole I am (except for Jeff, he's already fully aware that I am one).

Looking forward to keeping The Passion debate alive - but I feel that I need to tone it down on the religion stuff a bit. Even if no one was bothered by what I said, I'd rather not get that far away from film on here.

Jesus Gonna Be Here (a long, controversial read)

I accidentally kicked Alex Craver's ankle pretty hard tonight - I feel bad because he's a good friend, an awesome dude, and a great singer/drummer for Summer People. I don't feel too bad, though, because the man is made of steel. And I nicknamed him "the knife" in high school because that guy will cut you.

I re-read my post when I got home - I didn't have time to edit it or anything. After doing some proofreading, I realized that there were many typos, mistakes, and unclear thoughts. I have since edited it, so I hope that no one really read it before 9:30 or so. If you did and thought it to be confusing, you were right.

I also didn't have the time to respond to Brandon and Ben's posts and to say hello to Jason. 

Jason, hello. You're catching me at a great moment - presenting myself as an asshole atheist. But I'm with you on The Empire Strikes Back. Easily my favorite. The first time that I saw Sleeper, I really enjoyed it. I did watch it recently and didn't laugh as much - so I'm also with you on it being slightly uneven. But it's hard to be too critical of Woody circa 1970. Have you seen Love and Death? One of my all-time favorite films. Looking forward to getting to know you better, man. I like The Shins, too, haha - don't get me wrong. Not with you on The Happening, though. I don't think I could ever make that bold of a statement.

Kirk Cameron shits himself and then turns that shit into movies. Give it up for Growing Pains, though, am I right? Alan Thicke is fantastic. I'm kidding, John. Thicke ain't no Gibson either ;-) Yes, I just winked at you. You probably want to punch me by now.

Brandon, nice post. Can't get enough of those pics, haha. John seems to be on a mission to watch The Passion again now. For all the shit that I've said about it...I really should too. My Dad has the DVD. No excuses other than the fact that there are just too many other films I have to watch first. Can't commit. So little time. 

Gibson is a polarizing figure. Ben's right, a lot of this discussion is predictable. I think he and Tom Cruise are two of the most hated guys in Hollywood who used to have such great careers. I want to argue that Aronofsky is more of an auteur than Gibson...but that argument is only based on subjectivity for me. I have no additional evidence (not yet anyway).

Yeah, Birth of a Nation is not a film I've seen and one that I'm not sure that I want to watch. I realize the guy made Intolerance a year later, but it's still not enough for me to get over it. I'll concede that Griffith is an important figure in film history and that he had talent, but I choose not to watch the movie...for now. I love the Marx Brothers, but there are definitely some slightly racist jokes/sequences in their movies. I can forgive them, but I'm not there when it comes to Griffith yet. But really, the racism in the Marx Brothers films isn't even comparable to the blatant racism in Birth of a Nation.

Definitely agreed on Mel skimping out on story - I'm trying to transform that into one of my main arguments now - as I begin to get more focused.

I feel kinda bad for announcing on here that Christians bother me. But I did have the line about it being nothing that people I know need to worry about. I really hope no one took that personally. To attack one's religious beliefs is a little more serious than attacking someone's movie preferences, so I do apologize for that. I also don't want to go into too much religious debate. This is film club and I want to talk about film on here (though Brandon makes a nice point about the two being easily relatable).

But really, I can't fully apologize. Look at the shit that just happened in Norway. Is every Christian responsible for that? Absolutely not. Not every Christian is vile and evil, but when was the last time you heard about an aetheist carrying out a religious killing? The list goes on and on when talking about religious hypocrisy and people killing in the name of their god. Yes, humans are violent in general. Yes, Christians aren't the only guilty ones for this, but I'm just more familiar with them and grew up a Methodist. And look at the Catholic Church and the evil that persists in covering up molestation.

I have to stop myself. Sorry. That's an extremely long rant waiting to happen. I really just want to say that there are some really great Christians out there who practice what they preach. My mom is one of those people; I love her to death. My dad is kinda one of those people, too. He's guilty of using the Lord's name in vain every time something falls out of the fridge- it's quite amusing, but other than that I really respect his religious views. He doesn't buy into the Noah's ark bullshit and realizes that it's a fictional story. My mom does believe the bible to be literal and I just can't wrap my head around that. There are so many great lines about God in The Seventh Seal that I would like to quote here, but whatever. I somewhat agree with Bill Maher when it comes to religion. Maybe a Religulous debate is on its way. I don't know how the universe was created. I admit that there are things that we can't explain with logic or science. But to think that there's a guy up in the sky helping the Green Bay Packers win the Superbowl (silly example, I apologize) or preventing the spread of evil, it doesn't seem plausible to me. I have so many reasons for knowing that God doesn't exist, but look at the Holocaust. It wouldn't have happened if God exists. And if God does exist and he/she/it let it happen, then fuck that guy/girl/thing. Damnit, it turned into a rant anyway.

Mainly I feel that God/Heaven was created by Man to give himself/herself the idea that we are special/important. Then there's also the fear of dying and finding no afterlife. Just fear and ego in my mind. 

Truly sorry if I've offended anyone or painted Christians with too broad a stroke. I certainly don't feel this way about anyone in film club, obviously. I don't really know John or Jason (in fact, just met Jason), but I have a good feeling that if we got into a religious debate, we would develop a nice understanding of one another. You're the religious guys on the panel, so it might appear as if this stuff is directed at you or you might feel the need to defend yourselves, but you guys aren't the ones I'm angry at. And I don't want anyone in film club to feel uncomfortable for expressing their religious beliefs based on what I've shared. I don't believe in God but I believe in love. The teachings of Jesus are liberal in my eyes and are very important and interesting.

Nice point about propagandist entertainment, Brandon, as I get back on track. Neutral art is boring, agreed. 

Ben, haven't seen Black Death, but I would be onboard if everyone else is. Thanks for the suggestion.

You Don't Win Yet, John

I was hoping to come home from work and start playing some Red Dead Redemption before playing soccer in Bainbridge tonight. Looks like that's not gonna happen.

Before I start my post, I'd just like to say that I respect the hell out of you, John (even though we've never met) and I think you make a lot of great points.

Having said that...

I'd like to copy and paste Jeff's post and insert it here. And that includes the last two paragraphs because I definitely realize now (in fact, I realized it yesterday) that making the argument of "if another director had made it, you wouldn't like it as much" is one I never want to use again. It is a stupid argument because you could say that about any movie - Woody Allen's Annie Hall is a great example, Johh, because I love that movie just as much as Jeff does. So I will concede that point. I think the reason why I said it again comes down to the fact that Gibson doesn't impress me as he does you. As I've pointed out before, he isn't the talentless hack that Kirk Cameron is. I think I used Kirk Cameron as an example because it was a joke and he amuses the hell out of me - Jeff and I rip on him and The Left Behind series every now and then. But yes, Gibson has been in the business longer than I've been alive and he clearly knows what he's doing and is an auteur - sure. Saying that there is "no other appeal" DOES sound like a straight attack now that I think about, so I can understand where you're coming from. Obviously there is an appeal for you and for others. The appeal was just never there for me, and I tried to project that feeling onto others. I can't really do that and I don't have an argument to stand on when I do it.

This conversation is getting off-track, quick, though, because you've never stated that Gibson is as good a director as Terrence Malick and you never said that The Passion is the greatest film of the aughts. My attack on the film and the director is mostly directed at those who would say those things about it. Sure that's no one in film club and no one I've met, but it's still the way I feel. Gibson is a good director, not great - in my opinion (which maybe isn't worth much because I clearly don't know as much about film history as you do or his career). The Passion is a bad movie - in my opinion - not due to the technical aspects of it...but MAINLY due the story and the message. This has a lot to do with my religious beliefs but like I told Brandon, I don't think it's the sole reason. Look at the story without the religious context - what do you have? It might not sound like a terrible story to some, but it doesn't sound like an interesting one to me.

I told Brandon that I feel that it's stupid for critics to just focus on the violence in the film and Mel's overall craziness rather than the rest of the movie. I was initially guilty of this, but I want to try and become a better critic/viewer of film. I do want to get away from doing that, so I do appreciate you and Brandon for steering me in a better direction.

I think we still differ mainly on the propaganda aspect. Is it Birth of a Nation? No. Is it a Goebbel's film? Hell no. So maybe propaganda is definitely too strong a word. Again, I maintain that Mel was preaching to the choir and NOT looking for conversions. I think we do agree on that point, John. But I do agree with Jeff's latest post as well. We differ again in the argument that Midnight In Paris is "nostalgia" propaganda. I get it - Woody Allen has a theme/message in the film. The past is better than the future (though, really, that's not the message at all) and antique shops are the greatest places in the world (again, I don't feel that this was the message and you don't either, you're just making your point). There is a world of difference between saying that nostalgia is great and saying that Jesus is great. Yes, Jeff is right - every director who is competent is trying to sell the audience on something but when your sell has to with spirituality and religion - I believe you are moving closer to propaganda (again, this film isn't propaganda...but I do see it as closer to that line that a movie promoting an antique shop). Sure everything is political. Sure there can be hidden spiritual contexts in films that appear to be secular. But this is a Catholic film, as you pointed out, John. I don't know - I really hope that I'm making my point clearly here because I really don't know how you can compare the two movies in terms of "propaganda" or audience indoctrination or whatever you want to call it...or selling the audience something as Jeff said.

Off to soccer for now, the saga continues...Wu-tang, Wu-tang

Some More Thoughts...before the show starts

John, I was definitely joking when comparing Mel Gibson to Kirk Cameron. Agreed, Kirky boy is a no-talent ass clown, while Gibson does have a legit movie career (even if he's doing a lot to damage it right now). The point that I was trying to get at was that I feel that you guys only like the film because of Gibson's involvement. And it's not like it only could've been Mel - it could've been any other actor that you guys are fans of. There truly is no other appeal - though you make some nice points about casting unknowns and having the cast speak Aramaic. I can accept those examples. Also, it's hilarious to hear you rant about Cameron/Lahaye/Jenkins. I also feel like apologizing for making you even think about those turds.

Also, I know that you and Brandon don't care enough about this one to debate it and talk about it all day. I truly appreciate Brandon's commitment to the conversation. And I enjoyed it even though I don't hate the movie enough to talk about it all day either. I was just thinking a minute ago about how I really don't hate it as much as I let on. I dislike it. I dislike Mel...though I can respect his career more than I can garner any sort of respect for this movie. I am equally tired defending a film that I don't care about enough to truly hate.

But I appreciate your thoughts, too, John, as always.  Enjoy the show, man.

Some Thoughts...

Jeff and I had a discussion about The Passion shortly after I did my first post on it. I wish I could have recorded it and then put it up here, but whatever. We were discussing a lot of what you touched on, Brandon. We discussed the reasoning behind Mel's decision to make the movie and what he wanted the audience to take away from it. I also want to admit quickly that when I saw the film, I DID NOT think to myself, "My god, Mel hates Jewish people." I think the Anti-Semitism in the film is definitely blown out of proportion. The reason why I called him an anti-Semite earlier is mainly due to his drunken rants. But I truly believe that Mel made the movie because he wants the story to be shown on film/to be told. I believe that he truly believes in Jesus and that he died and came back to life to wipe away the sins of every man, woman, and child. So I definitely agree with John in that regard - Gibson clearly cares about this project. It's important to him...I give him that.

Jeff focused on the movie kind of acting as religious propaganda (Jeff, if I'm butchering your assessment, I apologize...this conversation seems like a long time ago now). For those who saw it and weren't Christian, there is a potential for them to feel guilty since Jesus went through this for them, too (and Patti, yes) - past, present, future people. Because he went through hell for them, they'll feel as if they need to owe him their devotion. Something to that effect. Again, Jeff, I apologize. I do agree that it can have that effect, but I really feel like Mel just wanted to preach to the choir. He wanted other passionate Catholics and Protestants to come and witness a big event that they all missed out on. But yeah, I'm not fully sure what the motivation was...like with each blow, that you talked about Brandon.

I agree that it's stupid for critics to just condemn the violence in the film and not attempt to talk about anything else about it. That's not really fair, and I wish I could remember more about it than the torture scenes...but in fairness (my definition of fairness) the violence is 95% of the movie. I'm sure that it is technically sound, but most of the time I can't get on board if the story doesn't interest me. You kinda need to know Jesus to watch this one because there really is no exposition in the film. It sounds funny to suggest that Jesus needs exposition, but whatever.

Agreed - the religious folks should have found it more objectionable. That's definitely something that disturbs me about Christians. But they're definitely not all like that. After Bin Laden was killed, my religious Uncle condemned the celebration of murder on Facebook. He probably liked this movie, though. Gah.

And I do understand your reasoning for putting it on your notable films list - I can support your decision, but I still remain true to the idea that I want nothing to do with it.

You are forgiven for the Graduate comparison. If Zach Braff was feeling ambitious at all while writing or shooting that movie, then I would gladly rip on it. I liked it for what it was, though - seemed simple and honest to me at the time. I'm sure if I watched it now I would feel indifferent - I'm not as impressionable and guys like Braff don't impress me anymore. I'm not concerned with emo shit and such. I feel that The Graduate accomplishes everything that it wants to say very well. I really love the last shot. Maybe you don't, but again, I'd like to find all of that out someday.

Nice to hear that you feel that The Sixth Sense is overrated. I believe that Jeff is on-board for that as well. Maybe it is premature to write the guy off now, but yeah, I think I want to go on record and say that he never had much in the first place. I like some of his movies, but people seem to rave about his "best" stuff a ton. You'd think that Bruce Willis being dead the whole time was the biggest twist ending in the history of film.

"Jesus died for somebody's sins but not mine" - Patti Smith

I think the only reason why I mentioned my atheism was because I wanted dispel the idea that my  reaction was based on my religious view (but I guess by announcing that, I shot myself in the foot). I don't know, people probably assume that an atheist hates it merely for the fact that it's about the guy Christians believe died for our sins. But you're right, Brandon, let's call a spade a spade, it's torture and that's the reason to feel negative about it...not the Christian aspect. And I put the Patti Smith quote as my post title just because I love that cover of Gloria and that line. I really don't have a problem with Christians. Well, yes I do, but it's nothing that any of my Christian friends or family members have to worry about.

And maybe the root of the problem was that I don't understand the love for Mel. I DO NOT feel any negative feelings about anyone (whether they're in film club or not) for saying that they like him. I'm just curious, I guess. And I figured it was due to movies like Mad Max, Maverick, and Leathal Weapon. I liked him in Signs, too, though Brandon, so chalk that one up to weird inconsistency on my part. I hate the man, not the artist. I don't think Woody Allen or Roman Polanski's personal lives should influence the way people feel about their movies either. But speaking from a artist/talent stand-point, I feel that Mel is overhyped. But it's true, you grew up on Mad Max and I did not. Had I, I'm sure I'd have a different reaction and I definitely want to see that movie soon. Anyone a Ransom fan? Ha, I just remember watching that as a kid and maybe liking it...maybe. Not really a movie kids should be watching, though. What is wrong with my parents?

Right, I mostly don't have a problem coming at you, Brandon, because I know we both enjoy debate when it comes to this kind of stuff and we're not mean-spirited (even if I seem like it sometimes). And again, much respect. When John was ripping on us for liking Harry Potter, I was laughing my ass off...so definitely the same for me, come at me with all you've got. It's easier to debate the work of others anyway, if I made a film and you guys were critical...that would be the time for me to take things personally. So I definitely don't mind at all...but it is a little weird to share top ten lists. Feels more personal than it should be. But I'll come out of my shell soon.

And I have to say, Brandon, I'm not sure why you seem to be comparing Garden State to The Graduate. The latter is on my favorite films and a semi-modern classic - a great Simon and Garfunkel soundtrack beats the pants off of The Postal Service any day. Agreed, fuck that band. The Shins - I kind of like some of their stuff, but I don't know enough about them to argue in favor of them. But yeah, I don't really care for  Braff's bands or themes either. I think we should really discuss The Graduate at some point here - should be a lot of fun. But yeah, if both movies were personified and hanging from a cliff - I would save The Graduate instantly and let Garden State fall to its death...even if I had all the time in the world to save it.

You bastard, how dare you call the twist in The Village the pits! It's the single greatest moment in the history of cinema!! No, I understand what you're saying about the post 9-11 fear stuff and from that point of view, I do agree with you. I guess I just never considered that after watching it. Good point.

It'll be fun to discuss The Sixth Sense someday, too. Why is that movie beginning to feel overrated to me? Hm, maybe not. We'll find out later, I suppose. Thanks, Brandon, for this and future debates/discussions.

Bearing the Cross of Hating 'The Passion'

It's Sunday Morning, so I figured I'd treat everyone to something from the funny pages. In this case, Gil Thorp, the lamest comic strip ever created. I don't know...it amuses me.

Now that the newspaper's out of the way, let's move on to Jesus...

On The Passion, I don't mean to crap on it just because I'm an atheist. I don't think people should dismiss it based on their religious beliefs. It is a movie first and foremost, not a sermon. And I know that it's cool to hate it, but I consider this be one of those movies where I don't care how many people rip on it, I could never defend nor enjoy it. I just don't understand the appeal. I'm not condemning the use of violence in film, but that amount of it just isn't my thing...and I feel consistent with that sentiment; I don't wish to watch movies like Saw or Hostel (haha, yes, John - The Passion and Saw would be a great double-feature). Whether simulated or real, torture isn't for me. And I'm NOT calling you guys a bunch of Dick Chaneys for liking it either, you Bush Doctrine bastards!

I guess I also just don't understand the appeal of Mel Gibson. And let's say Kirk Cameron went off and made this movie instead, shot for shot, would anyone still be on board? Speaking of which, anyone want to partake in a Left Behind marathon with me? Louis Gossett Jr. is in the last one...

I don't think Mel should be blacklisted or that people should boycott his movies just because of his off-screen mistakes. Though I really don't even want to use that word -"mistakes." When you screw up as many time as he has, it's something much bigger than an accident or a mistake. Mel is anti-Semitic and a wife-beater with repeated offenses. This is who he is. And while I agree that his star status allows for a bigger magnifying glass to placed above him, and if we were in his position we all could just as easily get into trouble (though I don't think any of us would...okay maybe some of us would come across as Anti-American, but only because people don't understand what we're really trying to say), but that doesn't make it okay in my opinion. For Mel's on-screen work, I've never really been a fan of him in anything.

Brandon makes an interesting point about Mel probably knowing that this movie would make millions. I think that that part about it bothers me too - that it's that easy to make money off of people and their beliefs. But that's been true for hundreds and hundreds of years.

If this discussion already seems exhaustive, I completely understand. And I want to clarify again that I know that none of you are so in love with this movie or its director that I need to go on a rant like this, but whatever...just wanted to share. On to happier thoughts...

Ben, I understand what you're saying about Tarantino - if you don't like his movies, then you don't like them and that's perfectly fine by me. I just find them to be so completely entertaining. He's the type of guy who makes me truly enjoy the existence of film/movies. But again, I completely respect your opinion on the issue. I have not seen that Iconoclasts episode, but I will definitely look into it. I also wish I could do a better Tarantino impression - Norm MacDonald's is pretty damn good.

And great news about Tree of Life. I still need to see it as well. But I do understand that everyone (except for John) is kind of exhausted with discussion about it. Maybe you and I can have our own mini-discussion on it, Ben.

Brandon,

I did specify in my post that I felt bad for attacking movies that you didn't even list in your honorable mentions list. I should have made that more clear, my apologies. You know that I have a lot of respect for you, and if you didn't know that, you do now. I could never admit to at least partially liking a movie like Ella Enchanted, but I can promise you now that if something like that occurs, I will not be afraid to share...now that you've broken that ice.

Of the boxing exceptions you listed, I've only seen Raging Bull. I will check out the others at some point. But even with Raging Bull, I think that you and I would never refer to it as a boxing movie. In a way, it's not really about boxing at all. That's what I love about it, it isn't defined by the sport in the way that a movie like Rocky is. I watched The Fighter a few months back and while it had some great individual performances, the story as a whole felt familiar/stale. The ones that are the freshest for me are the aforementioned Raging Bull and On the Waterfront (even though it's technically about an ex-boxer, but it is one of my favorite movies of all-time). But Jeff and I will probably give Million Dollar Baby a shot here at some point.

And The Incredibles and The Iron Giant as well - added them to my queue.

I really don't want to back away from Garden State, because I want to stand by everything I post on here...but I guess I should really just watch it again. It was one of those "I liked it at the time" movies. I understand why you hate it. It feels kinda faux-sentimental/insightful in a way. Maybe that will be the one to go from my list when I see Before Sunset (I'm not scheming here, I was just such a big fan of Before Sunrise that I know it will make the list...but maybe not). In general, I feel kinda bad about my '04 list. Not only did I forget about a lot of the movies I saw, but I'm also just not as impressed with that year as I am with other aughties. I hope I can give a better showing for '03...looks to be the case right now; the list is done whenever we're all ready.

Right, The Village as a monster movie would have been more interesting. But I do like the twist the most - don't really care for the rest of the film. I think I'd just really like to write my own movie about a little village that casts itself away from the rest of humanity. I just find that idea to be interesting.

John,

Added The Five Obstructions to my queue. And I see your comment referring to Gale's murder; definitely true given the blood on Jesse's hands and the lab log in Gale's apartment. I'll have to check that podcast out. New episode tonight...can't wait.

Also, how is season 10 of The Simpsons coming along? What's the feeling like to return to those episodes after so many years?  I can't wait to see your rankings when you're done, and also can't wait to talk about earlier seasons.

The Twilight Zone is still on hold for now. It's amazing how little time there seems to be.